Falinia (falinia) wrote in victoriapagans,

I'd love some other people's opinions on this conversation.  I'd like to be better able to communicate my thoughts and what better way than to bounce them off some other folk and gain deeper understanding of these concepts?

So the showdown stood thus: GWRP (generic wiccan rooted pagan) vs. Baptist (aka, sister).  

GWRP: As far as my gods go there isn't* any good or evil, good and evil are an animalistic concept which I abide by because I am an animal. I do not think my gods care if I kill someone, I don't kill people, because I care if I do, as it's counterproductive to society which relies on faith that we won't stab eachother in the faces. And, it's counterproductive in my life since it could mean I go to jail.

Baptist:  There is definitely good and evil, God is good and wants us to do good, all of humanity is contaminated with sin and so doing good is against our natures and that's why we need God to dictate what it is.  A good example of this is "love thy enemy".  That doesn't come naturally to us but it's good and right and if everyone followed it then there would be no reason to dislike anyone and the world would be a better place.

GWRP: but.. sometimes people just suck inherently and no matter how much they're trying to love you you still just want them to go away.

Baptist: you wouldn't want them to if you were trying to love them back.

Opinions? Do good and evil really exist? Does loving enemies make the world better or just leave you freezing your butt off while they walk around with your cloak and your robe? I know my idea of good&evil and her idea of good&evil are quite different, do you have another version?

Baptist: Your gods seem kind of little and useless they don't seem to care what happens to you.  What do they do for you?

GWRP: Why should they do anything for me? Why would they care about me? I suppose I benefit when I'm working with them to cast magic.

Baptist: explain.

GWRP (unable to think of better generic description): I chanel my gods through my will to achieve whatever I'm casting for.

Baptist (in annoying voice) : Oh, I get it. So you like it because your gods have to bend to your will and you don't have to bend to anybody else's will.  I See.

GWRP: Closer to "my gods don't care so I get to choose what we work together on". However if we're going to go that route then you seem to do your god's will merely because you want a pat on the head and a "good girl". Your spirit is akin to a brown-noser sucking up to the teacher.

Thoughts? Those of you who work with specific deities, do you find yourselves trying to serve their will or do you work with them towards your own goals? Does anyone out there cast for the greater good (end to global warming, cure for cancer (in general, not for someone you know)

Baptist: God gives me a purpose in my life, do your gods do that?

GWRP: No, why should they? As far as they're concerned as long as the universe stays in motion it's all good, even if I'm miserable.  Which would be a great part my own fault since I can call to them for aid whenever I want and I live in fecking British Columbia.

Baptist: well you admit you're miserable sometimes.

GWRP: yeah well I'm too lazy sometimes to cast.

Do you have a purpose in life? Do you need one? Anybody else just too lazy to be happy? 

Oh, and before anyone asks, yes, we are actually that obnoxious to eachother.

Disclaimer: I'm not suggesting all baptists share my sister's views or that all gwrps share mine, feel free to be a gwrp and agree with everything "Baptist" said.

* grammar nazis can you please tell me if this should be aren't?  would "good and evil" be singular or plural?

x-posted to
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